tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429570072441023296.post8725002624084634423..comments2023-09-07T06:36:59.520-04:00Comments on The Virtual Philosophy Club: Roman Stoic Philosophy and Seneca the YoungerIra Glicksteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10800080810596424897noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429570072441023296.post-90170713640093179292013-11-06T23:54:31.947-05:002013-11-06T23:54:31.947-05:00Thanks, Joel, for your latest comment.
I agree th...Thanks, Joel, for your latest comment.<br /><br />I agree that, for someone born into the welfare trap, whether he or she is a stoic or not, the most likely outcome (assuming the social workers and politicos who live off the welfare state for their jobs and votes keep their power and the free things coming) is for that person to play that role to the hilt and seek and get as much as possible, while doing as little study or work as necessary, and passing this evolutionarily successful culture on to as many as possible in the next generation.<br /><br />On the other hand, a common theme of stage plays is for the underdog to have a revelation and pull him- or herself up by their bootstraps and overcome the odds. The reason that is a common theme is due to its rarity in real life, but it does happen. So, playing our assigned role to the hilt may include breaking out of the comfort of the nanny state and becoming a full-function productive adult.<br /><br />What is the most humane and effective way for a modern society to encourage such activity? I think you would agree that it is tougher administration of welfare so only those who really need it can get it!<br /><br />I think a stoic teacher and a stoic school board and a stoic city council is more likely to foster or demand that those capable of studying and working actually do so. <br /><br />The stoic knows that there ARE things that ARE under our control. We are not helpless flotsam on the sea of life. The Enchiridion recommends a productive life of self-discipline and hard work, while recognizing that there are some things that are not under our control. The key idea is that if there is a battle or goal that is worth fighting for, and is reasonably achievable, a stoic should go for it.<br /><br />IraIra Glicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800080810596424897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429570072441023296.post-77966065527086905052013-11-06T14:38:04.467-05:002013-11-06T14:38:04.467-05:00I don't mean to be stubborn about this, but I ...I don't mean to be stubborn about this, but I would say that the only logical interpretation is that a stoic plays himself to the hilt no matter what. Any effort to follow a different path because of so-called material advancement of another or inspiration from a non-stoic is treason to his natural being. Stoics in what we call the "welfare class" might be heroes by accepting their evolutionary success and rejecting the condemnation of others. For example, impregnating as many females as possible while allowing the state to support them is the a formula for evolutionary success despite the condemnation of the rest of us. joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08770806025343971171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429570072441023296.post-82506404345488305552013-11-03T00:03:31.143-04:002013-11-03T00:03:31.143-04:00Joel, thanks for your insightful comment.
It is s...Joel, thanks for your insightful comment.<br /><br />It is said that "Nature is red and raw, of tooth and claw." All life, be it bacteria, plants, insects, or animals are assigned their particular roles by the Author of the great epic, the Struggle for Life. (Of course the Author is known as GOD - the Genetic Optimizing Device Who utilizes evolution and natural selection to generally improve the survival and reproduction "fitness" of each species).<br /><br />It is not our business to choose our particular character, but rather to play our part to the hilt. In the case of the "higher" animals, and particularly of the primates, and more specifically of humans, the Author has given us intelligence that we may use in addition to the natural raw "tooth and claw" to play our part with both greater compassionate cooperation and more terrible competition than our "lower" animal relations may muster.<br /><br />"Good" and "Evil" are relative to a stoic. A person with what Joel calls a "murderous spirit" may, if he of she is on our side in a war and is properly managed, do things we call "Good".<br /><br />Further answering the challenge that someone born to the "welfare class" might interpret stoicism as a recommendation to play that role more effectively by sloughing off at school, refusing to work, and voting for "nanny state" politicos to get more free stuff - yes, that could happen.<br /><br />On the other hand, such a person might be shown a different path if inspired by the example of someone who escaped the welfare trap via working hard in school. Or perhaps a more stoic school board might support dedicated teachers via better pay and stronger discipline to help people surmount the welfare trap. <br /><br />IraIra Glicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800080810596424897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429570072441023296.post-77574152291626069522013-11-02T18:50:49.985-04:002013-11-02T18:50:49.985-04:00Ira commented during his presentation that Epipict...Ira commented during his presentation that Epipictetus' Enchiridian states that " Remember that you are an actor in a drama, of such a kind as the author pleases to make it. If short, of a short one; if long, of a long one. If it is his pleasure you should act a poor man, a cripple, a governor, or a private person, see that you act it naturally. For this is your business, to act well the character assigned you; to choose it is another's. <br /> In the question period this quote was challenged in the case that one was born into the "welfare class." Ira then suggested how someone born into poverty might still rise within the constraints of stoicism. I suggest a different and more stoic and more radical response. A stoic should accentuate what he is. For example, if he has a murderous spirit, he should exercise it to the highest degree possible and accept the consequences. A stoic does not emphasize "good: or "evil." The stoic philosophy is actually in harmony with our view of The Theory of Evolution. Only by testing each possible set of genes against the environment does nature give us the opportunity to the best successor. Therefore, play your roll and resolve to be thyself to the maximum and let nature worry about right and wrong in a grander context. <br />joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08770806025343971171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429570072441023296.post-34985804348141714322013-10-28T23:34:55.922-04:002013-10-28T23:34:55.922-04:00During my presentation at The Villages Philosophy ...During my presentation at The Villages Philosophy Club, someone asked if the Seneca Tribe of Native Americans, which has a reservation in western New York, were the source of the name for the western New York city of Seneca, or was the city merely named after the Roman Stoic philosopher, Seneca the Younger? <br /><br />I joked that there was another "Indian" tribe in western New York that were sometimes called "the Italian Indians" but I could not recall their name. So, I researched both issues and they are related!<br /><br />See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_people" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_people</a>.<br /><br />It turns out that "...The Seneca nation's own name [for themselves] is Onöndowága, meaning 'People of the Great Hill.' It is identical to the endonym used by the ONONDAGA people." [The latter name which I have heard joking stretched to "Onan-dago" where "dago" is an apparently offensive term for an Italian, Spanish, or Portugese speaking person.]<br /><br />More seriously, from Wikipedia:<br /><br />"Other nations called them Seneca after their principal village of Osininka. ..."<br /><br />OK, dropping the initial "O", we get "SININKA" which, to an English or American ear, becomes "SENECA", the current name accepted by the "Seneca Nation" organization.<br /><br />"The similarity to the name of the Roman statesman Seneca is entirely coincidental."<br /><br />Ira GlicksteinIra Glicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800080810596424897noreply@blogger.com